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#1 2010-03-03 06:52:46

Nintendo Maniac 64
Member
From: Northeast Ohio, USA
Registered: 2010-02-24
Posts: 92

Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

I was just wondering if DeSmuME rendered 3D using 24 bit colour, even if/when the game was originally programmed to use 16 bit colour.

I'm pretty sure other emulators (like Dolphin) do this, which is especially useful since most of Nintendo's games only use 16 bit (I'm guessing to squeeze out more performance?).

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#2 2010-03-03 07:34:52

zeromus
Radical Ninja
Registered: 2009-01-05
Posts: 6,169

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

It runs at 16bpp because it must be 16bpp to be straightforwardly and properly mixed into the gpu. Desmume developers strive for correctness and code clarity first. The desire for correctness prohibits total replacement of the 16bpp mixing engine, and the desire for clarity prohibits the installation of alternate codepaths for this particular feature. The situation is analogous to high-res 3d, though it is not quite such a mess as that. Unlike high-res 3d, there is a nonzero chance that this could happen some day.

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#3 2010-03-03 07:39:20

Nintendo Maniac 64
Member
From: Northeast Ohio, USA
Registered: 2010-02-24
Posts: 92

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

zeromus wrote:

Unlike high-res 3d, there is a nonzero chance that this could happen some day.

This sounds like a double negative to me, so basically you're saying that it could indeed happen? (while at the same time still implying that hi-res will not happen - such negativity! ;P)

Last edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 (2010-03-03 07:39:56)

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#4 2010-03-03 07:50:13

zeromus
Radical Ninja
Registered: 2009-01-05
Posts: 6,169

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

to analyze double-negative statements, perform mathematical operations to simplify. My statement can be simplified as follows:

1. Unlike high-res 3d, there is a nonzero chance that this could happen some day.
2. Unlike high-res 3d, there is a not zero chance that this could happen some day.
3. Unlike high-res 3d, there is a not (zero chance) that this could happen some day.
4. Unlike high-res 3d, there is a not (0% chance) that this could happen some day.
5. Unlike high-res 3d, there is a (between 1% to 100% chance) that this could happen some day.

Therefore, in conclusion, it could indeed happen, since all the probabilities lying on the interval [1%,100%] are characterized by could-indeediness, in contrast to the 0% chance which is absolutely devoid of could-indeediness.

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#5 2010-03-03 07:52:56

Nintendo Maniac 64
Member
From: Northeast Ohio, USA
Registered: 2010-02-24
Posts: 92

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

I understand how double negatives work, it's just that I wanted to make sure before I go making absolute statements that are incorrect - especially when it's past 2am.

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#6 2010-03-03 07:56:09

zeromus
Radical Ninja
Registered: 2009-01-05
Posts: 6,169

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

Are you running a gossip mag or something? Try making no absolute statements about plans for this emulator, and you are less likely to be wrong. Especially since some folks in this world have been known to do things differently just to spite people that thought they had the spiteful folks pegged.

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#7 2010-03-03 08:00:34

Nintendo Maniac 64
Member
From: Northeast Ohio, USA
Registered: 2010-02-24
Posts: 92

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

Naw, just after how the last topic went down, I'm trying to be as unassertive as possible.


Fun fact: my personality could be described as "kuutsundere" (google kuudere and tsundere if you don't know) - what you saw in that "resolution and filters" topic was me breaking into the 'tsun'.  I'm trying to keep myself away from that and stay in my 'kuu'.

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#8 2010-03-03 10:25:10

Manivo
Awesome Possum
Registered: 2009-02-15
Posts: 655

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

I can't be bothered to google it up. Does it translate to "annoying"?

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#9 2010-03-03 14:12:08

yonizaf
Member
Registered: 2009-12-22
Posts: 179

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

... yet you did bother to post about it. who's the annoying one,  i wonder.

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#10 2010-03-03 16:25:14

zeromus
Radical Ninja
Registered: 2009-01-05
Posts: 6,169

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

Look no further than the end of your nose.

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#11 2010-03-03 20:07:13

shash
Administrator
Registered: 2007-03-17
Posts: 897

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

DS color depth is 18bit, not 24 tongue

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#12 2010-03-03 21:22:14

Nintendo Maniac 64
Member
From: Northeast Ohio, USA
Registered: 2010-02-24
Posts: 92

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

shash wrote:

DS color depth is 18bit, not 24 tongue

I half knew this already, hence why I asked if DeSmuME "upgraded" it to 24 bit and made a comparison to Dolphin.  The half I didn't know was that it was 18 bit and not 16 bit.

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#13 2010-03-03 23:16:04

shash
Administrator
Registered: 2007-03-17
Posts: 897

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

Any way, it's not something that you'll ever notice, so the chances of it happening are probably zero. Learn to code and do it yourself, or abandon all hope.

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#14 2010-03-04 02:19:23

Nintendo Maniac 64
Member
From: Northeast Ohio, USA
Registered: 2010-02-24
Posts: 92

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

Geez, this wasn't a feature request - I just was curious if DeSmuME did this or not.

And whether or not one notices it depends on whether their screen and visual awareness are good enough (on a typical LCD probably not, but you could on CRTs and OLEDs)

Last edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 (2010-03-04 02:20:45)

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#15 2010-03-04 02:38:18

zeromus
Radical Ninja
Registered: 2009-01-05
Posts: 6,169

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

About every 15 days some noob comes along and asks for hi-res mode7 or more bits of color, like we havent ever thought of it before. It gets tiresome. By bringing it up and not asking, and then discussing it with developers at great length, you are assumed to be asking for it, according to the inarguable bylaws of such things as this, since it commands the same portions of the developers' brains to discuss it as it does to consider doing it; and since we only care about ourselves, the effect is the same.

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#16 2010-03-04 02:46:40

Nintendo Maniac 64
Member
From: Northeast Ohio, USA
Registered: 2010-02-24
Posts: 92

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

wait wait wait... mode7?  I never meant that, only 3D.  You can't make mode7 higher res, the only reason it's possible on ZSNES is because it's an actual function of the SNES.

And how can people ask every 15 some days for higher colour-depth when I even did a bunch of forum searches and didn't get any real results?

As for hi-res, there's a reason I didn't start a new topic, but I said time and time again I was not arguing whether it was practical to implement or not, but the actual principle of using such a thing for originally low-res 3D in general - and time and time again I agreed that due to the difficulty of implementing such a thing in DeSmuME, I don't have a problem with it not being implemented (I just don't like your attitude that it will NEVER WITHOUT A SINGLE DOUBT IN GOD'S MIND EVER happen)

Perhaps it'd be a good idea to mention such things in the FAQ?  Neither hi-res nor higher colour depth are mentioned yet you claim people are always asking these.


On a much lighter note, it's interesting that you spell it as "color", that is without the 'u'.  Even though "color" is my native spelling, I intentionally added the 'u' because FlagFox reports that the DeSmuME site and forums are hosted in France.

Last edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 (2010-03-04 02:53:31)

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#17 2010-03-04 03:10:47

zeromus
Radical Ninja
Registered: 2009-01-05
Posts: 6,169

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

mode7 is an actual function of the snes like 3d is an actual function of the ds. whats the difference? I only make fun of mode7 because people have been asking for it bimonthly for many more years. 

Your allegation that my attitude is that it will NEVER WITHOUT A SINGLE DOUBT IN GOD'S MIND EVER is contrary to my expressly stated attitude, but we have established by now that while you do definitely read everything posted here, you certainly comprehend none of it, so I do not fault you for getting it wrong. However henceforth I shall do you the same courtesy of failing to comprehend anything you write and instead just flailing about dickishly as you must no doubt secretly desire me to do, knowing as you do that behaving incompetently is the surest means to provoke that response from anyone competent.

To that end, I would like to say: thanks for your consideration in including a u in colour. French law requires that all users of a website hosted within the country conform to the spelling of colour favoured by their national neighbours. So if you don't use a u, we could get shut down by the french phonetical police. For someone who just joined the internet two weeks ago, you have a downright intimidating command of the pertinent social protocols.

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#18 2010-03-04 03:25:32

Nintendo Maniac 64
Member
From: Northeast Ohio, USA
Registered: 2010-02-24
Posts: 92

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

zeromus wrote:

mode7 is an actual function of the snes like 3d is an actual function of the ds. whats the difference?

Our PC's already have 3D hardware and software via OpenGL/Direct3D to up-res polygons, similar to how Project64/Dolphin/ePSXe/PCSX2/Cxbx/etc do it?

zeromus wrote:

Your allegation that my attitude is that it will NEVER WITHOUT A SINGLE DOUBT IN GOD'S MIND EVER is contrary to my expressly stated attitude, but we have established by now that while you do definitely read everything posted here, you certainly comprehend none of it, so I do not fault you for getting it wrong. However henceforth I shall do you the same courtesy of failing to comprehend anything you write and instead just flailing about dickishly as you must no doubt secretly desire me to do, knowing as you do that behaving incompetently is the surest means to provoke that response from anyone competent.

Needless to say, I laughed (not at you).  I still honestly think that you make me out to be dumber and more noobish than I really am (it's like highschool all over again), but ehh... it doesn't really matter since everything I could think about has been answered (AKA you won't have to deal with my terrible people skills anymore)


zeromus wrote:

To that end, I would like to say: thanks for your consideration in including a u in colour. French law requires that all users of a website hosted within the country conform to the spelling of colour favoured by their national neighbours. So if you don't use a u, we could get shut down by the french phonetical police. For someone who just joined the internet two weeks ago, you have a downright intimidating command of the pertinent social protocols.

Did it ever occur to you that I was trying to be considerate?  I guess you really didn't know what I meant by "kuutsundere" (doesn't matter now though; like I said, everything I cared about has been answered)

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#19 2010-03-04 03:34:58

zeromus
Radical Ninja
Registered: 2009-01-05
Posts: 6,169

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:

Our PC's already have 3D hardware and software via OpenGL/Direct3D to up-res polygons, similar to how Project64/Dolphin/ePSXe/PCSX2/Cxbx/etc do it?

I still can't figure out what you're trying to say or how this explains a difference between uprezzing mode7 and uprezzing 3d. Either I have no clue what I'm talking about, or you have no clue what you're talking about.

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#20 2010-03-04 05:13:38

Nintendo Maniac 64
Member
From: Northeast Ohio, USA
Registered: 2010-02-24
Posts: 92

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

ehh, nevermind then.

Though I'm hating myself for this, I did think of 2 other quick questions regarding to features implemented in other 3D-gaming-system emulators (and 1 quick misc one), but seeing the difficulty in up-ressing 3D already, I'm assuming the answer is no.  However it's killing me not knowing.


This is questioning the POSSIBILITY and EASINESS/DIFFICULTY, not whether someone would/will actually implement them:

-An aspect-ratio override (commonly refereed to as a "widescreen hack"- Other emulator video example)
-smoother internal framerate (other emulator example & video)

and just a generic quicky:
-multi-monitor support? (one DS screen per monitor?)


Just a simple response like "should be possible but would be very difficult" or "isn't be possible" will do.  Then I shall be gone and done with.

Last edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 (2010-03-04 05:14:26)

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#21 2010-03-04 05:32:12

zeromus
Radical Ninja
Registered: 2009-01-05
Posts: 6,169

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

should be possible but would be very difficult
should be possible but would be buggy
should be possible

Now to put these in perspective, imagine a sheet of paper filled with features and todo items. Now imagine more sheets of paper like that but with different todo items, stacked 1000 deep. Then imagine your junk got cut after falling beyond the 1000-sheet limit.

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#22 2010-03-04 05:37:41

Nintendo Maniac 64
Member
From: Northeast Ohio, USA
Registered: 2010-02-24
Posts: 92

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

I already stated I wasn't interested in whether they'd be implemented or not, so these not getting implemented aren't going to bother me one bit. (perhaps it was a note to the noobs possibly watching?  At least it seemed humourous)

Either way, that's it for me, you can rest in peace now.

Last edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 (2010-03-04 05:41:06)

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#23 2010-03-04 15:33:52

Manivo
Awesome Possum
Registered: 2009-02-15
Posts: 655

Re: Does DeSmuME render 3D in 24 bit colour?

To that end, I would like to say: thanks for your consideration in including a u in colour. French law requires that all users of a website hosted within the country conform to the spelling of colour favoured by their national neighbours. So if you don't use a u, we could get shut down by the french phonetical police. For someone who just joined the internet two weeks ago, you have a downright intimidating command of the pertinent social protocols.

I lol'd so hard.

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