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#1 2014-04-14 08:31:51

Monochrome100
Member
Registered: 2014-04-10
Posts: 30

Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

Hi I have question for Desmume developers. Have  you ever considered switching from SVN to Git ? In my opinion SVN is dead-end and waste of time while Git allows for easy forking of repositories and  merging of Merge/Pull-Requests instead of patches. Historically speaking Git based emulators had far faster development than SVN based ones just look at PPSSPP and all major emulators already switched to Git including PCSX2 recently. And compared to SVN  large number of people can contribute easily.

Last edited by Monochrome100 (2014-04-27 19:34:37)

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#2 2014-04-14 15:33:29

zeromus
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Registered: 2009-01-05
Posts: 5,710

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

yes, we considered switching from svn to git

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#3 2014-04-14 15:53:27

Monochrome100
Member
Registered: 2014-04-10
Posts: 30

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

zeromus wrote:

yes, we considered switching from svn to git

Then why did you not ? And are you still considering it in the near future ? Its not too late.

Last edited by Monochrome100 (2014-04-15 15:30:15)

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#4 2014-04-15 12:17:29

Monochrome100
Member
Registered: 2014-04-10
Posts: 30

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

Desmume needs more  developers/contributors few guys can do so much.In my opinion best option would be switching to Git on Sourceforge and also setting official  Git mirror on Github. Not to mention merging something like Desmume X432R would be trivial in Git.

Last edited by Monochrome100 (2014-04-15 12:18:11)

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#5 2014-04-25 13:23:45

findpkq
Member
Registered: 2012-11-24
Posts: 79

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

well,just in my opinion,if you want to shut Monochrome100 up,just try to achieve what he want:)

he just want to see desmume  improve,though he is a little radical

really happy to see you are considering this
I'm not really know what does git mean to developing desmume,but if it can give you more relief and support,I'm glad to see that

sorry for my abruptly and selfish reply
hope my words not hurt anyone

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#6 2014-04-25 17:26:25

zeromus
Radical Ninja
Registered: 2009-01-05
Posts: 5,710

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

it can't give anything but headaches. he thinks git is a magic wand.

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#7 2014-04-25 21:01:23

ff11
Member
Registered: 2014-01-04
Posts: 20

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

Sure, the git have more useful tools online (like github). But it's not mean git will bring more devs. Let's take a sample:
The PCSX2 migrate for github, and we have initial desire to contribute. The Kingcom make 2 Pull Requests, one of these you (Monochrome100, or at least the same user name) and the Tyestor make comments for motivate this action. BUT, have been 12 days now (and will be more), that nobody (I said nobody) make something to merge this commit. And it's not hardcore commits, just simple ones. Because of this, we don't desire to contribute anymore. What is missing to it be like the PPSSPP github? Simple, the PPSSPP github have a good leader, the Henrik Rydgård (hrydgard). And you can be sure, is the hrydgard that make the difference with this good tool, not the github itself.

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#8 2014-04-27 19:32:36

Monochrome100
Member
Registered: 2014-04-10
Posts: 30

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

ff11 wrote:

Sure, the git have more useful tools online (like github). But it's not mean git will bring more devs. Let's take a sample:
The PCSX2 migrate for github, and we have initial desire to contribute. The Kingcom make 2 Pull Requests, one of these you (Monochrome100, or at least the same user name) and the Tyestor make comments for motivate this action. BUT, have been 12 days now (and will be more), that nobody (I said nobody) make something to merge this commit. And it's not hardcore commits, just simple ones. Because of this, we don't desire to contribute anymore. What is missing to it be like the PPSSPP github? Simple, the PPSSPP github have a good leader, the Henrik Rydgård (hrydgard). And you can be sure, is the hrydgard that make the difference with this good tool, not the github itself.

Maybe PCSX2 devs are not experienced yet with merging requests ?  Besides its separate issue it doesnt mean Zeromus cant merge requests for Desmume but I agree Hrydgard is good project leader and PPSSPP made rapid progres compared to most other emulators.

Last edited by Monochrome100 (2014-04-27 19:37:15)

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#9 2014-04-27 21:07:16

zeromus
Radical Ninja
Registered: 2009-01-05
Posts: 5,710

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

you don't know why one project progresses and another doesn't.

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#10 2014-04-27 22:02:54

ff11
Member
Registered: 2014-01-04
Posts: 20

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

zeromus wrote:

you don't know why one project progresses and another doesn't.

We can use Software Engineering Metrics for this. But only on our own projects. A good Software Process should handle this part.

Monochrome100 wrote:
ff11 wrote:

Sure, the git have more useful tools online (like github). But it's not mean git will bring more devs. Let's take a sample:
The PCSX2 migrate for github, and we have initial desire to contribute. The Kingcom make 2 Pull Requests, one of these you (Monochrome100, or at least the same user name) and the Tyestor make comments for motivate this action. BUT, have been 12 days now (and will be more), that nobody (I said nobody) make something to merge this commit. And it's not hardcore commits, just simple ones. Because of this, we don't desire to contribute anymore. What is missing to it be like the PPSSPP github? Simple, the PPSSPP github have a good leader, the Henrik Rydgård (hrydgard). And you can be sure, is the hrydgard that make the difference with this good tool, not the github itself.

Maybe PCSX2 devs are not experienced yet with merging requests ?  Besides its separate issue it doesnt mean Zeromus cant merge requests for Desmume but I agree Hrydgard is good project leader and PPSSPP made rapid progres compared to most other emulators.

We can't be sure of what is going on with PCSX2. But I can say that it not motivate me anymore.
And it's not about just merge, you can see from Hrydgard many more things. And from the feedback point of view, the zeromus are very good and fast.
Is the skill that make all work together, that make a good leader. Because of this, if zeromus work better with SVN, then the SVN is the better tool. You have to work with the tools that you are good (and we have the compatible issue with some IDEs and other tools too).

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#11 2014-04-27 22:06:11

Monochrome100
Member
Registered: 2014-04-10
Posts: 30

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

zeromus wrote:

you don't know why one project progresses and another doesn't.

Well there are few different  factors like for example:architecture of emulated console, number of developers/contributors, how skilled they are ,motivation, teamwork, if they are willing to think outside the box , if they are willing to merge external contributions.
But you really should switch to Git and also create official Git mirror on  Github because Desmume will never reach its full potentiall otherwise.You said yourself that Windows version of Desmume cant get shader support currently like OSX version because it has outdated GUI which cant support shaders.If Desmume was Git based and had more contributors like PPSSPP updating GUI wouldnt be much of a problem same thing with increasing internal resolution maybe someone would figure it out before author of Desmume X432R and would be able to make merge request.

Git allow for easy forking of repositories so others can easily create their own forks/branches make modifications and potentially merge them, branches can be created and destroyed at will, including remote branches,clones of the repository have the full history, including all branches,ability to rewrite history/commits before they land in trunk (rebase),push rights not needed to contribute. Repository can be distributed as Git bundles or tarballs ,small repository size, wide support in IDEs ,repositories can be hosted via HTTP, HTTPS SSH, rsync, and the native git protocol , advanced hook support hooks can be in any language.

Last edited by Monochrome100 (2014-04-27 22:54:17)

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#12 2014-04-27 22:18:24

ff11
Member
Registered: 2014-01-04
Posts: 20

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

Monochrome100 wrote:
zeromus wrote:

you don't know why one project progresses and another doesn't.

Well there are few different  factors like for example:architecture of emulated console, number of developers/contributors, how skilled they are ,motivation, teamwork, if they are willing to think outside the box , if they are willing to merge external contributions.
But you really should switch to Git and also create official Git mirror on  Github because Desmume will never reach its full potentiall otherwise.You said yourself that Windows version of Desmume cant get shader support currently like OSX version because it has outdated GUI which cant support shaders.If Desmume was Git based and had more contributors like PPSSPP updating GUI wouldnt be much of a problem same thing with increasing internal resolution maybe someone would figure it out earlier and would be able to make merge request.

Git allow for easy forking of repositories so others can easily create their own forks/branches make modifications and potentially merge them, branches can be created and destroyed at will, including remote branches,clones of the repository have the full history, including all branches,ability to rewrite history/commits before they land in trunk (rebase),push rights not needed to contribute. Repository can be distributed as Git bundles or tarballs ,small repository size, wide support in IDEs ,repositories can be hosted via HTTP, HTTPS SSH, rsync, and the native git protocol , advanced hook support hooks can be in any language.

If you want git, then you can use the alvinhochun git: https://bitbucket.org/alvinhochun/desmume-qt-frontend
He is merging all the things with the official SVN, while develop the qt frontend.
And at least for me, the qt frontend have more potential of all (eg: is easy to make multi-platform shader on qt)
You can contribute too smile

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#13 2014-04-27 22:20:09

zeromus
Radical Ninja
Registered: 2009-01-05
Posts: 5,710

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

You could save yourself time by posting a url to a list of git advantages for us not to read.

You don't know why one project progresses and another doesn't. But be my guest, type more wrong stuff about why one project progress and another doesn't. I won't stop you.

You can read hundreds of pages of text about why one coding style is better than another. But yet there are still projects of all degrees of productivity using all types of coding styles. It doesn't really matter, regardless of how much people say it matters, and regardless of how many amazing piles of very good-sounding reasons why one might be better than another. If one's got a bigger pile its usually just because its fanboys are noisier.

Same goes for git and svn.

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#14 2014-04-27 22:34:28

Monochrome100
Member
Registered: 2014-04-10
Posts: 30

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

zeromus wrote:

You could save yourself time by posting a url to a list of git advantages for us not to read.

You don't know why one project progresses and another doesn't. But be my guest, type more wrong stuff about why one project progress and another doesn't. I won't stop you.

I already did: architecture of emulated console(I am talking about emulation projects), number of developers/contributors, how skilled they are ,motivation, teamwork, if they are willing to think outside the box , if they are willing to merge external contributions and cooperate with external developers, what revision control system they are using(very important), funds but you can set up advertisments on official site even if its free software and probably in what language this project is coded.

Last edited by Monochrome100 (2014-04-27 22:44:08)

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#15 2014-04-28 11:28:06

findpkq
Member
Registered: 2012-11-24
Posts: 79

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

though desmume x432r's higher internal resolution has a long way to improve,but the other small tools are interesting
no resize,show tool bar in full screen,show fps in the title bar,CPU power saving,and fix hud bug
some of them seem useful

i also see someone try to make wide screen hack

and maybe i can contact the lighting jit's author,who write this for nds4droid
2 jit engines(like dolphin)seem interesting

well,i believe there are some dev want to contribute,but whether to apply patch is decided by you

In my humble opinion,zeromus you maybe a little conservative to some new fetures,while many people are expacting them
if you're worried about the code's stable,i think save bugs and broken slot2 in 0.9.10 formal version are far more serious.for novices,formal version is stable and reliable,and not everybody notice they can change a number to download the 0.9.9 version.i ever wait for the 0.9.10b for windows like cocoa port,but it hasn't appeared

I'm sure desmume's team work hard,but try to change a little attitude,the tiresome complains will decrease a lot,and all of us will glad to see this

best wishes:)

Last edited by findpkq (2014-04-28 11:52:57)

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#16 2014-04-28 13:34:42

alvinhochun
Member
Registered: 2014-02-07
Posts: 61

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

ff11 wrote:

If you want git, then you can use the alvinhochun git: https://bitbucket.org/alvinhochun/desmume-qt-frontend
He is merging all the things with the official SVN, while develop the qt frontend.
And at least for me, the qt frontend have more potential of all (eg: is easy to make multi-platform shader on qt)
You can contribute too smile

That's just my experimental git-svn repo, or temporary, or whatever you call it. I had been working locally with git since its branching style suits me more, and I tend to keep merged git branches and their commit logs somewhere. Pushing things to somewhere is just a simple way to make a backup of my local repo. And also for moving between Windows and Linux.
But well, merging between git and svn is quite clumsy.

I don't see how git can really improve much. For me, easy local branching and merging are nice features and that's one of the reasons why I use git locally, but that's not a big thing and I can do that locally anyway. But for others? Well, putting DeSmuME on github may get more people to fork it, but a lot of forks doesn't mean useful contribution. There can be all sorts of crap forks because forking is cheap. Devs may make dirty and ugly pull requests because committing is simple.  People may bombard DeSmuME devs to merge those dirty and ugly hacks because they don't understand. Pessimistically, it simply increases workload but brings few benefits.

That's said, I am more used to working with git than with svn and I like a lot of features of git.

Last edited by alvinhochun (2014-04-28 13:35:07)

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#17 2014-04-28 16:57:39

ff11
Member
Registered: 2014-01-04
Posts: 20

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

Then is it, Monochrome100! You can't say that DeSmuME have a team of devs (they don't work together), but is more like independents devs that contribute. Without a team, it don't need a leader. And you can make like the alvinhochun, just make some private git. You can export the patch online and submit the file on sourceforge.

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#18 2014-04-28 18:37:38

Monochrome100
Member
Registered: 2014-04-10
Posts: 30

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

ff11 wrote:

Then is it, Monochrome100! You can't say that DeSmuME have a team of devs (they don't work together), but is more like independents devs that contribute. Without a team, it don't need a leader. And you can make like the alvinhochun, just make some private git. You can export the patch online and submit the file on sourceforge.

I never said before that it has team or not and you are one who started talking about leader but if someone is leader than its Zeromus because he seems to have control of repository and this project in general.
Also  you can say it has ''team'' because there is few developers with write access to repository so they are not completely separate and are listed as developers.
And even alvinhochun said that merging between SVN and Git is clumsy.

Last edited by Monochrome100 (2014-04-28 19:10:10)

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#19 2014-04-28 19:07:06

Monochrome100
Member
Registered: 2014-04-10
Posts: 30

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

alvinhochun wrote:
ff11 wrote:

If you want git, then you can use the alvinhochun git: https://bitbucket.org/alvinhochun/desmume-qt-frontend
He is merging all the things with the official SVN, while develop the qt frontend.
And at least for me, the qt frontend have more potential of all (eg: is easy to make multi-platform shader on qt)
You can contribute too smile

That's just my experimental git-svn repo, or temporary, or whatever you call it. I had been working locally with git since its branching style suits me more, and I tend to keep merged git branches and their commit logs somewhere. Pushing things to somewhere is just a simple way to make a backup of my local repo. And also for moving between Windows and Linux.
But well, merging between git and svn is quite clumsy.

I don't see how git can really improve much. For me, easy local branching and merging are nice features and that's one of the reasons why I use git locally, but that's not a big thing and I can do that locally anyway. But for others? Well, putting DeSmuME on github may get more people to fork it, but a lot of forks doesn't mean useful contribution. There can be all sorts of crap forks because forking is cheap. Devs may make dirty and ugly pull requests because committing is simple.  People may bombard DeSmuME devs to merge those dirty and ugly hacks because they don't understand. Pessimistically, it simply increases workload but brings few benefits.

That's said, I am more used to working with git than with svn and I like a lot of features of git.

In my opinion biggest advantage of Git is that it has different culture and workflow than SVN when used correctly because it can allow large number of people without write access to contribute easily while SVN is only good for private projects with few developers its not suitable for emulation projects. I think its beneficial for project development when many people make forks and merge-requests but you dont need to merge every one of them if some of them are detrimental or buggy and Github for example has Travis CI.

Last edited by Monochrome100 (2014-04-28 19:26:55)

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#20 2014-04-28 19:12:41

zeromus
Radical Ninja
Registered: 2009-01-05
Posts: 5,710

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

Before there were forks and merge requests, there were patches. Thanks for saying I don't need to merge every one. I think I won't.

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#21 2014-04-28 19:15:30

Monochrome100
Member
Registered: 2014-04-10
Posts: 30

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

zeromus wrote:

Before there were forks and merge requests, there were patches. Thanks for saying I don't need to merge every one. I think I won't.

Patches are not the same as merge requests. You dont need to merge everyone but you should merge all good ones.By good ones I mean ones which are objectively beneficial to end-users and DS emulation in general because not doing so can lead to stagnation of DS emulation.I dont doubt in your skills but few guys can do so much. While Git allow large number of people to contribute.

Last edited by Monochrome100 (2014-04-28 19:32:24)

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#22 2014-04-28 19:28:30

zeromus
Radical Ninja
Registered: 2009-01-05
Posts: 5,710

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

Patches are the same as merge requests.

Your opinion about what is beneficial to DS emulation in general is already known, but there are dimensions you don't know much about, such as managing the direction and cleanliness of the codebase so as to optimize the number and types of contributions you can get in the future and control which parts of the emulator get pinned down and unable to change as other parts need to get changed.  Everything I do is related to that, and without a full understanding of it, everything I do may seem totally irrational to you.

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#23 2014-04-28 19:39:46

Monochrome100
Member
Registered: 2014-04-10
Posts: 30

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

zeromus wrote:

Patches are the same as merge requests.

Your opinion about what is beneficial to DS emulation in general is already known, but there are dimensions you don't know much about, such as managing the direction and cleanliness of the codebase so as to optimize the number and types of contributions you can get in the future and control which parts of the emulator get pinned down and unable to change as other parts need to get changed.  Everything I do is related to that, and without a full understanding of it, everything I do may seem totally irrational to you.

But Git doesnt stop you from doing what you are doing now and SVN merge and Git merge are not the same. A SVN merge applies diffs to files. A Git merge combines graphs of commits into a graph that has the commits from both graphs, SVN history is linear while Git is nonlinear.

Last edited by Monochrome100 (2014-04-28 19:43:22)

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#24 2014-04-28 19:49:12

zeromus
Radical Ninja
Registered: 2009-01-05
Posts: 5,710

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

So what? A penguin has feathers and a beak and they're cool. Should I get a penguin?

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#25 2014-04-28 19:51:44

Monochrome100
Member
Registered: 2014-04-10
Posts: 30

Re: Discussion about migration from SVN to Git ?

zeromus wrote:

So what? A penguin has feathers and a beak and they're cool. Should I get a penguin?

Yes if this penguin can  potentially help in faster development of project.

Last edited by Monochrome100 (2014-04-28 19:54:39)

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